Books by women
- Grunt: The Curious Science of Humans at War by Mary Roach HUMANS AT WAR. War is a "manly" thing. And this is all about science and there is more than one chapter about dude's fav thing, their crotch.
- Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison Are you avoiding books by women cos you think they aren't serious? Are you then going to try to argue that Morrison isn't serious? Because that is a patently ridiculous argument, sir. And look, this one is even about a dude, in case you want to ease yourself in.
- Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel Apocalypse. Art. Survival, both physical and emotional. Don't you want to get in on this? Or are these things only for the ladies?
- Alif the Unseen by G. Willow Wilson Political revolutionary hackers. Discussion of religion and spirituality and some super natural and also it's a thriller. But with a more serious purpose than a typical thriller. (And seriousness is a key here, isn't it?)
- A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan Rock and roll. Themes of the movement of time and loss of innocence. Interconnected stories from lots of different points of view, which is super fun. Plus it won a fancy award (Pulitzer)
- Frankenstein by Mary Shelley MOTHER OF SCIENCE FICTION. No other explanation necessary
- Assassination Vacation by Sarah Vowell History and presidents and assassinations and non-fiction. Those are all things typically thought of as guy things, right?
- Revenge: Eleven Dark Tales by Yoko Ogawa If the fear is women only write chick lit (I will save my rant about that for later) then FEAR NOT with Ogawa, especially not with Revenge. Plus more interconnected short stories FTW
Books starring women
- True Grit by Charles Portis TRY to say that True Grit is not the definition of a Manly Man's book club pick and ALSO try to say that Mattie is not the star of this one.
- Kings and Queens of Roam by Daniel Wallace It's possible this has too much whimsy for a dude's book club. Or at least a book club that would also specifically exclude stuff that is about women. But they shouldn't because this is a great story about family, forgiveness, redemption and the stories we tell ourselves and others
- Blackbirds by Chuck Wendig BAD ASS MIRIAM BLACK. She is cynical, foul-mouthed, violent without being "action dude but with boobs".
Books by and starring women
- We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver Kevin is an important character (we are discussing him, after all) but his mother Eva is the main character. It's a disturbing book full of unreliable narrators and sociopaths and school massacres. And it won a prestigious award (Orange, 2005). Also, since the author's name is Lionel, which is traditionally a boy's name, you can just pretend a guy wrote it and then it fits FINE within your rules. Actually, let's just forget that I mentioned Lionel is a lady.
- Beloved by Toni Morrison OF COURSE there is more Morrison on here. Most of her other stuff is also about women, I thought it made sense to include her again. And while any of her other books are more than worthy for your book club (Sula, Jazz, etc.) why not go with Beloved which ALSO won a Pulitzer and in 2006 NYTimes listed as the best American novel published in the last 25 years Because go big or go home.
- Kindred by Octavia E. Butler History and very serious topics (slavery) but also time travel. There is no melodrama here. Butler can see the shades of gray in everyone, even slave owners.
- Where'd You Go, Bernadette by Maria Semple This book is hilarious and everyone should read it. EV-RY-ONE
This is OBVIOUSLY not a complete list because to come up with something like that would be ridiculous. This isn't even a complete list from my own books, because I'm sure I could do another scan and find EVEN MORE to recommend.
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| Ron would read these |
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Rachel @ R Squared · 460 weeks ago
I also think there are some men who write like women. I consider Chris Bohjahlian a women's fiction author even though he's a man.
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
A Reader · 460 weeks ago
Few if any women, yourself included, object to all-women book clubs. So it doesn't make sense that you would object to all-male book clubs, especially those that form organically as all-male. (None of the profiled book groups said they exclude women, by rule or otherwise.)
Similarly, most book clubs have some criteria governing what they read--whether express or implied--from genre-based objections or simple page length. These criteria exclude many worthwhile titles. I notice you yourself object to reviewing YA or chick lit. You obviously have your preferences.
So if an all-male group that limits what it reads is not per se objectionable, then why are you and others bothered? The answer is that you'"re personally offended by a rule that openly excludes women's titles. Unfortunately, you won't admit that it's simple umbrage. So you cloak it in reason or principle: they're sexist; they're narrow minded; they're foolishly excluding titles that might help them overcome their ignorance.
No one complains about men's groups that read only military history--which implies they're probably not reading books by or about women. Why not?
Yours are easy criticisms. But they're not principled. A little more honesty would lead to a more civil discourse and a better understanding of what and why people read. But if it's just about piling on--because middle-aged men in a book club are actually being honest about their preferences and therefore make a fat target--go ahead.
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
My issue was with the idea that the rule was no books by or about women would be read. Not a genre but that anything by or about women. I think that is the key distinction. As you mentioned, a group that read only military history will probably not run into a lot of books by or about women, (although the first book on my list above is about the military and by a woman, so it's not impossible for those to come up) but presumably they are not avoiding books simply because a woman wrote it.
A Reader · 460 weeks ago
These men do not dislike women authors or characters. The "no books by and about women" mantra is merely expressing a preference for male-oriented fiction by slicing away the more saccharine titles they associate with women writing about women. Certainly they're rejecting lots of great reads, but far fewer than the military or YA or romance-only buffs who don't come in for condemnation from you and others.
Read the Apologia at www.manbookclub.com and see if you truly are convinced that they or other men's groups are hostile to women authors. I think you'll see instead that they're expressing a preference for titles that are men-oriented. If so, aren't they just as entitled to that preference as you are to yours?
If you continue to find yourself annoyed by these groups and their approach to reading, then be fair to them and explain why in a thoughtful way. And keep in mind their acknowledgment that they read broadly outside their guys' groups in order to better inform their reading and discussion of male-dominated fiction as a group.
A Reader · 460 weeks ago
What irritates me is the casual way you, like so many women, patronize men without giving it a second thought. So many sitcoms, TV ads, and blog posts are guilty of what you did above. Look at your first book description and the comment about "dude's fav thing, their crotch." Is that ok? Did you have to go there? I'm actually cool with it. But reverse the genders and a comment like that would be incendiary to a feminist.
I'm just tired of the double standard that exists in virtually every debate about gender and sexual equality. I'm desperate to hear a more honest discourse. Now I'm off my soapbox. You can have your blog back and thanks for letting me rant.
bethpriddy 12p · 460 weeks ago
And I just have to note that I love this bit from the guy commenting above: "The "no books by and about women" mantra is merely expressing a preference for male-oriented fiction by slicing away the more saccharine titles they associate with women writing about women." Guess he hasn't been out much.
A Reader · 460 weeks ago
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
A Reader · 460 weeks ago
I'm done wasting my time and yours. I don't mind being called names by those within your echo chamber, but I'm disappointed that's all there is. No one here cares to examine and respond to a man's perspective on an issue that's been promoted by you and others as yet another example of sexism in society.
The next time you feel the sting of male bias or ignorance at work--which is unfortunately all too prevalent even among millennials--remember that bias can't be eliminated if minds aren't open to change...or at least dialog.
readingrambo 112p · 460 weeks ago
Also: Visit from the Goon Squaaaaaad
readingrambo 112p · 460 weeks ago
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
He seemed happy to get on his soapbox and rant (his words "Now I'm off my soapbox. You can have your blog back and thanks for letting me rant.") so I guess there's that. Happy I could help.
glynis · 460 weeks ago
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
I hope WNTTAK is slipping through barriers cos her name is Lionel.
Laura · 460 weeks ago
I feel like my main complaint with men's-book-groups-that-only-read-books-by-and-about-men is that it's really so incredibly insulting to see 'women' as a blanket genre, when in fact, as your list shows, there are massive variations in the things women write about and in things that are written about women, in spite of the fact that *whispers* vaginas are involved in them in one way or another.
'Women' isn't a genre. 'Men' isn't a genre. Saying 'you're not mean when people just want to read YA' doesn't really mean anything because any one genre that people might choose to meet up and discuss doesn't exclude 50% of the population just on the basis of being women.
Sorry for the emotional response though, Alley. I must just have pms or something.
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
Emily Crowe · 460 weeks ago
First, that’s an excellent list of book recommendations. Excellent!
Secondly, let me just say that if a group of all white folks got together and decided not to read any books by, or about, non-white folks, and then proceed to talk about that as if it were a good thing, people would *immediately* get why that’s a problem. Which means that sexism is still a largely invisible -ism.
What Red Read 121p · 460 weeks ago
And really, my main point with this is LOOK AT ALL THESE GREAT BOOKS. Don't limit yourself and miss them. That's just silly. And sad for you.