Friday, October 25, 2013

Beauty or excellence...could redeem almost any humiliation

Happy Franzy Friday everyone!

We finally get to meet Denise, not just through her brothers' stories. And guess what, I don't hate her! I mean, she makes not the best choices, but I'm so happy that she is more like a Gary than a Chip. My standards have obviously been lowered.

I don't quite know why we needed the whole Robin bit in the beginning. Why is it important we learn so much about her and her family and where her money comes from? I get that we eventually get the connection to Denise because of the whole funding-her-restaurant-and-then-she-sleeps-with-both-Robin-and-Brian thing. But I don't see why that means we needed their whole back story. We don't even learn that much about Caroline, and she's actually a Lambert (through marriage, but still).

OK, so Denise. Why do we need to start with her as a teen? We just get Chip and Gary in the present but for Denise we first have to go through the Robin's-brother-is-an-asshole story. Then we see her as a teen and her first sexual encounter(s) before we can see her in the present and why? Is it because these are the things that defined her later, where for Gary and Chip it was more them as small children? And why are these the things that defined her later? Ugh Franzen, what are you trying to say?

And then Franzen, you really need to add sexual assault to her first time? Really? Things were creepy enough, what with Denise sleeping with one of her dad's co-workers (employees?) who's at least twice her age. Perhaps it's to make a connection to her mom and the rape scene we read last section? I don't really know what Franzen's saying here, but that's also because I'm not 100% sure he realizes he wrote two sexual assault scenes. Both options make me sad.

So we learn that Brian made lots and lots of money and they never have to work again, so he decides he's going to open his own restaurant and he hires Denise to be the chef. She gets to run the kitchen and make the decisions about the food and get paid way too much. And she gets to go to Europe for awhile to eat and be inspired. Look how good things are going for Denise? So obviously we know this won't last. At least I like that she's a cook. I know we already knew this from the earlier Chip & Gary chapters, but still. I'm just happy she's actually a cook and apparently a very good one. So see, Denise makes good decisions in one part of her life. Not so much with the trying to sleep with Brian stuff though. Of course, she seemed almost like she didn't want to do it. That she was going to have to. Not that Brian was forcing her but that that was what was expected based on the way he was acting and that's just how things work.

Let's talk about something happier. Brian and Robin's kids are annoying and pretentious. This is happier for me, because making fun of small, fictional children is fun. But seriously, "you be a pathogen...and I'll be a leukocyte" and no. No. Shut up.

I like that Denise was so focused at getting Robin to like her, not because she really wanted to be Robin's friend, but because she wanted to deny her the satisfaction of disliking her. All I could think was
Of course then they become more than just friends, because TWIST. You think Denise will have an affair with Brian, but turns out she's going to have one with his wife! And then with him because why not. I wasn't crazy about the affair with Robin, but mostly because of how the restaurant was suffering by her not being there, because I have messed up priorities. But dammit, Denise, this is a kick ass opportunity and you're sort of throwing it away. I'm not saying STOP sleeping with Robin. I'm just saying, maybe quit sneaking away from the restaurant during the dinner rush.

Now you've lost both Robin and Brian AAAND the restaurant. Dammit. I knew that was going to happen.

And we learn that Alfred didn't die. Which...what? How? 

Then there's some stuff about Chip and he was in Lithuania but now the country is falling apart and he's trying to get back to the States but doesn't really want to and blah blah blah. I tried to pay attention to this section, but really didn't care. Maybe Chip will end up just stuck at the airport in Lithuania. Or he'll be shot there. Whatever.

Sorry this was all over the place, but really, you know what you're getting into. Next week, we finish this thing! Will everyone stop being terrible? (Probably not.) Will Alfred be visited by more talking poo? (Thinking 50/50 chance.) Will Jonah find out he was actually adopted, and his real parents are loving and normal people who have come to take him back with him and give him lots of books to read? Also he's actually a wizard and he'll get to go to Hogwarts. But Hogwarts after the HP stories, so he doesn't have to deal with ever year of school getting ruined by Voldemort. I assume Jonah would appreciate really getting a full education. (Yeah, so this won't be happening, but oh man, how great would that be? You'd never see it coming. [Except if it does happen, I clearly just called it. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but it's been a long day.])

Till next week!



Title quote from page 377

Comments (18)

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I just wrote this whole stupid long comment out and then had to sign in to comment and it ate it! Stupid intense debate.

The basic gist though was that I'm thinking Franzen doesn't realise what he's writing is rape/assault. I bet he just thinks that's how women do sex. They either lay there stiff and crying or they have to be forcibly pushed into everything. Eugghh Franzen, you're gross

I forgot to include a quote in my post, but I thought it was hilarious because Franzy is supposed to be so literary and hoity-toity and he describes Denise's first sexual experience as "Pressed his mouth to her thights and then to her whatever". Either describe the scene or cut it out Franzen!

Jonah = Harry Potter fanfic, someone get on this.
4 replies · active 599 weeks ago
I took the use of "her whatever" to signify that Denise is too young to be comfortable with sexual terms, which indicates that she shouldn't be having sex at all yet. But that would mean that Franzen did recognize that this scene is totally problematic, and I'm not sure I want to give him that much credit.
Yes, this. I got the impressions Franzen was calling it her "whatever" basically because that's what Denise would call it. After they had sex he did refer to it as her cunt. Whether or not he believed she wasn't ready to have sex yet is a different story. Cos really, I could see him thinking this sex scene is problematic without really noticing he just wrote a sexual assault scene.
I hadn't even considered that possibility and now I feel really icky about that scene.
DAMN YOU, INTENSE DEBATE.

I feel like Franzen probably does think "My this sex scene is quite awkward and full of problems, much like these characters" but he doesn't quite get to the "I just wrote a rape scene point."
Deniiiiiise, you messed up your whole life for sex. So I think what Franzen is saying is... She's not really any better than Chip? Women are no better than men when it comes to sex? I don't know, I'm all for men accepting that women have sex drives, but... Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have abandoned THE BEST JOB EVER to go get some.

I absolutely didn't pay attention to the Chip part. All I have is 'GOD, Chip is so selfish and narcissistic.' Which, obviously!
1 reply · active 599 weeks ago
Yeah, I can see the connection between Denise and Chip both messing up their lives for sex. But I hate Chip and it sounds like he was a shitty professor and Denise was actually good at her job and WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY? Except I assume she could get another job at another kitchen. Won't be as awesome as the offer she had but unlike Chip trying to work at another university, I feel like a kitchen won't so much care if you were screwing the owner and his wife.

I forgot to mention in the Chip part there there was a bit where he described himself as Foucaultian twice, in case I had forgotten how much I hate him. Don't worry, Franzy, I hadn't forgotten.
I agree that I totally don't hate Denise... I just think her character development was pretty subpar in comparison with the others.

And Chip's section this week was just painful to get through. I wish he would fall off a cruise ship, too.
4 replies · active 599 weeks ago
Yeah, and for the longest time in this section, I felt like we were learning about Denise through others: Robin, then Don Armour, then EVENTUALLY we got to her. Why take so long? We were in Chip's head (and his leather pants) right away.
It's almost as though her character development was shoddy BECAUSE she's a woman. But that can't be true, can it? CAN IT?

I've got my eye on you, Franzen. And not in a sexy way.
Yeah, I sorta feel like that is the case. Which is sad. Dammit, Franzen!!
Nooooooo! Because now we know that falling off a cruise ship isn't enough to kill a Lambert. He needs to be in a situation where his chance of survival is 0%!
Okay, the overwhelming message I'm getting this week is: "ELLIE, DON'T READ JONATHAN FRANZEN EVER. YOU KNOW THE PORN ACTRESS AUTOBIOGRAPHY YOU'RE READING FOR NO REASON EXCEPT IT WAS ON A LIBRARY DISPLAY STAND NEXT TO THE CHECKOUT MACHINE? YEAH, STICK WITH THAT, THE PLOT'S BETTER." Also, I really want Kenneth Branagh to play Jonathan Franzen in a movie biopic, and to do it in exactly the same way as he played Lockhart, only without the robes. Or with, whatever works. Because that's sort of how I see Franzen in my head ALL THE TIME.

On a related note: If you ever decide to write a post-Corrections Harry Potter crossover, THAT I WOULD READ.
1 reply · active 599 weeks ago
You know, I don't know that I'd say don't read Franzen ever. I think I will probably add Freedom to my TBR list after reading this. Just know that you're going to be reading something where everyone is terrible and they do terrible things to one another.

Haha I will def make sure to post that there should I decide to read it. Or if anyone else would like to write that, please share your link
Oh my got Tim Curry. Come live with me and be my love.

Jonah will be best friends with Albus Severus and everything's going to be OK.

I completely agree that the most upsetting thing about Denise's affair with Robin was her ruining her chance at the restaurant. So sad.

Could it be that Franzen didn't know he was writing assaulty sex scenes? What the what? I don't know though, the language around Enid saying no and Don pushing on Denise's head (barf), that's pretty blatant.
2 replies · active 599 weeks ago
OMG YES to Jonah and Albus Severus being best friends. Then Jonah will get to hang out at the Potter's and he can see a non-horrible family in action.

I guess I don't know what Franzen is going for if he did write these sex scenes knowing they're just super rapey. He clearly sees them as problematic. They're not GOOD scenes. But I feel like there's a disconnect between what the sexual assault actually means for the characters that he's yet to address.
JONAH IS HARRY POTTER AND THE POTTERS ARE THE WEASLEYS. Everything is connected!

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